11 comments so far
It looks like someone was making a lot money by pretending to be something they aren’t. It was just a matter of time before something like this happened. There are quite a few people out there who pretend to be sharing the “Indian Way” for a good price. If you’re being charged for any type of spirituality or religious teaching, seems like you’d realize someone is only interested in getting in to your wallet. Oh yeah, that’s right, all churches request money. Spirituality can not be sold, you have to experience it for yourself.
SEKOH,MY NATIVE BROTHERS AND SISTERS I AM CURIOUS,CONCERNING,WHAT WHITE PEOPLE NOW WANT, TO BE LIKE NATIVE AMERICANS.FIRST OF ALL THEY DIDN’T LIKE US,NOW THE WANT TO ACT LIKE US.SEE WE UNDERSTAND THE SMOKE LODGE,THEY DON’T HAVE A CLUE CONCERNING THE DO’S AND DON’T.I MORN FOR THE PEOPLE WHO DIED THERE.BUT IF THEY WAS TAUGH BY NATIVE AMERICANS HOW TO USE A SWEAT THE SWEAR LODGE.JUST MAYBE THEY WOULD BE ALIVE TODAY.AND PAYIG FOR SOMETHING THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN FREE
SUCH A LOST…
AND ELDER MOHAWK
GRAY WOOLF
>>>>>>——————————->
There are no Indian/white issues here or any race or cultural issues. As “sweats,” have gone on in multiple cultures for thousands of years. This is a reality of ignorant people who were extremely reckless. Unfortunately it will happen again. I wonder if alcohol was involved, which is the ultimate of ignorance in a sweat. Most Natives and others experienced in sweats practice strick rules to a wonderful physical and mental experience, wraped in spirit. Bear
A few updates to the tragedy and corrections.
This was not a sweat lodge, a native american ceremony that is a healthy spiritual event.
This sweat box was run by white men for profit and would never have gone bad if native consultants had been employed to supervise.
This event did not happen in Sedona, and has no connection to any Sedona resident or spiritual activity. The white entrepreneur running this sham is a Californian.
The prevalent story we are hearing is that Jimson Root was used in the eighth round of this two hour event, throw on the rocks to
promote or force visions.
This psychoactive poison is never used for this purpose in any native ceremony I have heard of, and would account for the number of victims becoming sick at the same time.
Finally in a disgusting teleconference Jimmy Ray and his hired “channel” deflect the blame for the incident, attempting to taint the witnesses with New Age sounding drivel,
including the ludicrous statement by the “channel” that the deceased victims were
on a spiritual journey and were having “so much fun they decided not to come back”.
I wonder how much fun the kidney damaged survivor had, and whether they will wish they had not come back either!
Great site. Nice to see other bloggers out there doing there part in getting the message out.
Number 4 Tony Sedona: Thanks for clarifying certain physical elements of this tragic outcome, particularly the possibility that another white man has poisoned the well. The cleanse that kills. The term “new age flake” comes to my mind, sadly for the first time, the term assumes a sinister quality. The cost to fast track someone’s concept of spiritual enlightenment could include, along with your money, your life. Enlightenment comes to the seeker as a result of a lifelong practice (hard work) of following a spiritual path. “Blessed are the poor for they shall inherit the earth”. May these well intentioned, misguided souls rest in peace.
I dont think James Ray had bad intentions when he decided to offer this event to spiritual seekers. Definately guilty of lack of preparation and the appropriate staff for such rituals (natives)..could it have been an honest mistake though? James Ray did not plan this event to kill anyone, but to push their limits….and with everyones limits being varied. I feel it is up to the individual to know their OWN limitations…still….its tragic at best…however, the returned souls are blessed and are at peace now.
my question is this….. how did these people not feel their limitations? And if they did feel them…why did they ignore them? if i started feeling the least bit sick….i’d be out of there !
I am saddened by a conversation with a (former) friend who was at a different retreat in Sedona at the time. This woman is a very “New age white lady” who isn’t terribly smart, but has a lot of other things going for her (kind, intuitive, non-judgemental, etc.) She has been told by my husband (a pipe carrier for over 40 years) & I that we will share certain things with her, but she would have to give tobacco. She has never done so. She regularly has given thousands of dollars to white people for “teachings” based on our traditions, but taken out of context. This morning she was telling me about the stuff they were telling her at this retreat. When I gently corrected her about something that was historically inaccurate, she responded by telling me THAT I DIDN’T UNDERSTAND!!!!
The water pourer is responsible for the health and welfare of the people in the sacred lodge. Unfortunately, this was not a sacred lodge.
I agree with Tony – “not a sweat lodge.” We came along ways. Some of us losing our langauges, traditions, and some songs. For those of us that have something left. We need to touch one another with safety and keep our areas policed of this type of activity. Lets keep our ears, eyes open and warn each other of these types. There is also Indians that are doing this and they need to be exposed also. [IMG]http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk220/redroad_photos/CopyofCopyofSweetgrass2.jpg[/IMG]
(These are an important two posts. I created them on a Native American site:)
Let’s put it this way:
A group of six White People decide to go to one of YOUR Native American sweat lodge ceremonies. You charge them nothing and there is no liability waiver to sign. One person ends up dying and two are hospitalized. The families of the White Person who died are determined to throw you in jail and the remainder of the White People are determined to testify against you and that your were negligent.
SHOULD THEY WIN THE CASE AND THROW YOU IN JAIL?
WHY NOT?
*I assume you are going to say they should not throw you in jail
MY COMMENT AFTER THEY TRIED TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT:
You think you are slick, but I am slicker than you! I know your tricks on trying to change the subject and not answering my direct questions. I feel like slapping your faces and demanding you answer my direct questions. Of course that is not possible, but that is how I feel when people like you try to change the subject. I have you psychologically checkmated and YOU KNOW IT!
And don’t give me any crap that in my scenario the White Man would not lie under oath to make you look negligent when you were not negligent. You should know by now that lying comes easily to the ‘fork-tongued’ White Man.
Trying to take James Arthur Ray for every penny he has is DISHONORABLE!!!! Do you have any sense of honor left or are you determined to completely sink to the dishonorable ways of the White Man? The White Man has no real sense of honor. That is why contracts and treaties are written up. Such contracts and treaties are mandatory when dealing with the dishonorable. The honorable need no contract in order to keep the agreements they make with others. You only need contracts when dealing with the DISHONORABLE.
The White Man made a treaty with James Arthur Ray and the White Man should be made to abide by the treaty they signed and not find some dishonorable way around the treaty!
If you Native Americans are angry you should be angry that the White Man made a treaty with James Arthur Ray and now they are trying to break that treaty in ways not unlike how the White Man broke the treaties they made with the Native Americans.
How dare you sink to the level of White Man hypocrisy and pretend you care whether or not the White Man dies trying to emulate your sweat lodge ceremonies.
How dare you sink to the level of trying to rob James Arthur Ray by acting as though you have some sort of legal copyright on how sweat lodge ceremonies must be conducted.
The White Man may have robbed you of many things. Don’t let the White Man also rob you of your sense of honor!’
WAKE UP!!!!!
[...] The plea by Lakota spiritual leader Arvol Looking Horse comes in response to the recent deaths at a sweat lodge-type ceremony in Arizona. (See previous post, here.) [...]
[...] Journal columnist Jim Kent gets it right in this piece that’s a terrific follow-up to the recent deaths at a high-priced so-called sweat ceremony run by a white self-help guru in [...]